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              <text>&lt;strong&gt;Q:&lt;/strong&gt; Was contact tracing something you'd had experience in before? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ALIABADI:&lt;/strong&gt; No. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Q:&lt;/strong&gt; What was that like then--just starting to pick that up?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ALIABADI:&lt;/strong&gt; It's a pretty straightforward concept, but it's not necessarily easy to execute because, again, there's people letting you talk to them, people being suspicious, and all that stuff plays into it. The theory is simple, but the execution isn't. I always, just for me, especially with that first appointment, when we'd be out talking to people in the field it would just be really hard for me not to immediately try to assume a doctor-patient relationship with people just because that's my training and where I'd been from. It's hard to push that away and not want to examine someone or like--you know. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There was an incident in that first deployment as well when I was with the same WHO person who was doing contact tracing with me where he was like oh, there's been a death in a prison and it's unexplained and we need to go investigate. We went up to the prison, and this was not in Conakry, this was in the next prefecture a couple of hours away. We go there, and talking to the prison warden or whatever they're called, I'm like, who did the person share a cell with? Can we examine them--or I wasn't asking, can we examine them. I'm like, "Who's the doctor or the nurse here?" They brought that person in, and I'm like, "Tell me the symptoms, give me some history that I can say yeah, this person probably had Ebola versus they didn't." The story was all over the place. It was hard to understand what really had happened, but I was like, "Did you examine the people around this person?" He was like no, they hadn't. My instinct at that moment was like, bring them in. Someone needs to examine them. I want to do it, but we're not supposed to do that. They told us no exceptions, we're not supposed to handle patients and touch patients and care for them in a clinical way. That was hard for me to let go of. But when I saw that it wasn't being done, it was just frustrating. What ended up happening is we just called MSF and were like, just please come, somebody needs to actually lay hands on these patients. [laughs] Not lay hands, but look at them, observe them, examine them. They did, and it ended up being fine. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Q:&lt;/strong&gt; But when you look back, how do you feel about that? The prohibition on having that more doctor-patient relationship? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ALIABADI:&lt;/strong&gt; I think it's probably appropriate. We're there as epidemiologists, not as physicians. I think if there was a mechanism for us to have been able to provide direct care, I think a lot of us--some of the EIS officers that I know I'm sure would've taken on that role. But I can also understand that CDC wouldn't want to get involved in potential exposure of its staff to Ebola. I can understand.</text>
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              <text>The one thing, the thing that I think I would want to--the message I would want to convey most of all about what it was like working in the red zone, is not how impersonal the PPE made it, but actually how personal it made it. Because Ebola is very isolating illness. The moment the Ebola box is opened, you leave your kids. You don't touch your children. You don't touch a dead body. You cannot touch, you cannot go near a sick person. One of the most instinctive things is to care for someone who's really sick. Just to even hold the hand, or to mop their brow, all that, you cannot do. Someone's got Ebola, you cannot go near them. And PPE, the only people in the world who could crouch down and clean up someone who was having profuse, like, ten liters of diarrhea every day, uncontrollable water coming out of them, the only people who could crouch down and clean the sheets and change their clothes and wipe them down and wipe their brow and give them a sip of water were the people wearing the PPE. So actually, it felt really privileged, and it felt really close. It was the most intimate patient care experience I've ever had. It was crouching down with a--this fantastic Sierra Leonean hygienist called Princess who--she did not take any shit. [laughter] If she wanted to spray your shoes, even if someone's like, "Why are you spraying my shoes here, Princess?" She's like, "No, Charles, stop! Shoes!" It's like, okay, whatever, whatever. But because she cared about the people she was in there with, she cared about keeping things clean, she cared about doing things right. We did a ward round together, and we did it efficiently, we did it well, and we were going well. I think the second- or third-last patient we had was a fourteen-year-old girl who was dying, and she had just been cleaned like half an hour earlier, and she was already horrendously soiled. She was lying on her mattress on the floor, that she'd put her mattress onto the floor as many of our patients did. We saw her, we did the kind of clinical bit, and then I wanted to move on. And Princess was like, "Are you leaving her?" I was like, "No, we're going to see our next two, and then we'll come back, because we've got enough time." You're only meant to be in the red zone for an hour, but we had probably been there for forty-five minutes at that point. It's like, we've got two more people--no, it must have been one, because we would have been about the forty-five minute--we had one more person who needed a proper review. Then we had three or four people in the convalescent tent. They were all well. They were getting better, their blood tests were just still positive. I said, "What we're going to do is we're going to see this one more person, we're going to sack it off, convalescent tank can wait for another time, and then we're going to come back and clean this girl up." Princess was very happy about that. We did that, came back, and together, Princess on one side of the mattress, me the other side, we crouched down. You're wearing this big PPE with these heavy aprons and gumboots and the hood, and your goggles are steaming up, you've been there an hour. It's really, really hot. Your clothes, the scrubs you've got on under your PPE is absolutely saturated, like you have jumped in a swimming pool, saturated with water. I have one photo of me, before-and-after photos getting on scales. I'd gotten on scales before I went in, and then when I came out, I didn't drink any water, I just went and changed my scrubs into dry scrubs and got back on the scales before I had water. I'd lost 1.3 kilos [kilograms] in an hour. And you hear stories of people losing more. Anyway, so we were crouching down, sopping wet, and got new bedsheets, got new clothes, cleaned her up, made her comfortable, gave her some water. She would have only been clean until the next people came past, I'm sure, and they would have done the same. But that was the most intimate patient care experience I've ever had in my career. No question about it.</text>
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ALPREN:&lt;/strong&gt; The main projects I've been involved in, the main theme of my work over the last year, has been semen. [laughter] Because Ebola was found to persist in bodily fluids, particularly immune privileged sites--the sites that don't get much blood supply, much immune cell supply--for far longer than we initially thought when the outbreak started. When I was discharging men from ETC in Aspen, we would say to them, "Look, Ebola has been found in semen for longer than other bodily fluids, and we think probably about three months, so you should use condoms." That's the kind of advice, that was the basic advice. I could have probably put it in a slightly more articulate, official way, but that's kind of how it was said. It quickly became evident that it was potentially present for a lot longer than three months, but probably the chances of actually causing sexual transmission were low. That's really where we're at now. We've had examples of sexual transmission from survivors well over a year, well over fourteen, fifteen months from the time of their infection, but they are very isolated cases and very rare. However, when you've got three, four thousand, however many survivors we've got in Sierra Leone, forty-odd percent of whom are men, most of them are men of sexually active age. They all need testing, they all need counseling, they all need to change their behavior because you don't know which one person--we don't know for sure if having cleared Ebola RNA [ribonucleic acid] from your semen, it stays away. We don't really know what negative means, what not detecting Ebola RNA in semen means. One of the things that I say when I'm teaching about Ebola is--I don't know, do you know how many people work in this campus of CDC?&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Q:&lt;/strong&gt; I have no idea. [laughs]&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ALPREN:&lt;/strong&gt; No? I use the example of Melbourne University, where I teach, where there are about forty thousand undergraduate students. It's a big--it's a big--&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Q:&lt;/strong&gt; We have a large college campus next door with Emory [University], too.&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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              <text>[T]he huge success was the spread of Ebola into Nigeria that had occurred a month earlier. In Nigeria, we were fortunate that we had several collaborations in place. The introduction into Nigeria was a single person ill on an airplane and introduced it into Lagos, and secondary and tertiary transmission occurred in Lagos and then it also spread to Port Harcourt, a second city. When I joined the International Task Force, besides leading the response in Senegal, my team picked up the Nigerian response although it was well in its--it was quite a mature response. I led the lingering activities that were in Nigeria, and I learned a lot from that Nigeria experience because what Nigeria showed us was how vitally important it is to rapidly identify all of the controls and to monitor them and prevent secondary transmission. But in order to do that, the success story in Nigeria was that there was a Field Epidemiology Training Program, an FETP, that was very robust, in particular because of the polio resources. Polio's resources that were provided to the FETP in Nigeria led to well-trained field epidemiologists that were used to being in the field and finding cases. In some of the polio trace-backs, they found cases, even in the most difficult settings, and knew how to do contact tracing in a very robust way and to monitor the contacts. That EIS-matured program, experienced EIS program, was just phenomenal. They immediately went to the field in the Ebola outbreak and broke the chains of transmission. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The second thing was because of the polio effort, there was an emergency operations center concept and program in Nigeria, so that when Ebola was introduced, they immediately set up an emergency operations center to coordinate and make all the decisions rapidly. These decisions, which sound simplistic, but the emergency operations center for example had the ability to immediately allocate resources, small resources. In some of our other countries' responses, paying for the taxis, which was a minimal expense, would take a week to get the necessary signatures to pay for. But here in the EOC in Nigeria, they were able to immediately allocate funds. Although they did get some of the funds from private partners, so in some instances, even going through the government was not quick enough, they got additional resources added. But nonetheless, they had a mechanism to make decisions rapidly to, how do we respond? So the FETP, the EOC, and then they had a robust laboratory program network because of the polio. All those pieces were in place mainly because of our--in large part because of CDC country office partnership with the Ministry of Health, and we had their trusted relationship with the Ministry of Health. All those programs together allowed CDC to contribute to quite a robust response in Nigeria and rapidly contain the introduction. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We learned a lot from that in our team as we were starting up this Unaffected Countries Team, we called it, in the third week of August. I remember that we were fortunate that on my first or second day, Frank Mahoney had returned from Nigeria and came to the EOC, and I sat down with him and debriefed him, and he shared all these stories about the success in Nigeria, and we learned from that, that those are the things we needed to focus on for our responses in the other countries. We began to focus our energy on controlling Senegal, but rapid concerns about well okay, if this could happen in Senegal and happened just a month earlier in Nigeria, what about Côte d'Ivoire or any immediately neighboring country? And also, any country. Like Nigeria demonstrated, it doesn't have to be an adjacent country. Any other country that has connections, flight connections, there could be transmission. What can we do to strengthen the neighboring countries so that it does not spread out of these heavily affected countries?</text>
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